The Up Series

I'm going to work in Woolworths.

When I grow up I want to be an astronaut.

When I get married I'd like to have two children.

My hearts desire is to see my Daddy

I don't want to answer that.

This is no ordinary outing at the zoo

it's a very special occasion

we've brought these children together for the very first time

they're like any other children

except that they come from startlingly different backgrounds.

Stop it at once!

We brought these children together because we wanted a glimpse

of England in the year 2000

the shop steward and the executive of the year 2000

are now seven years old.

In 1964 World in Action made Seven Up

we have been back to film these children every seven years

they are now thirty-five.

Give me a child until he is seven and I will give you the man.

Is it important to fight? Yes!

I want to be a jockey when I grow up yeah I want to be a jockey when I grow up.

At fourteen Tony was already an apprentice

at Tommy Gosling's racing stables in Epsom

he left school at fifteen.

This is a photo finish of when I rode at Newberry

I'm the one with the white cap

I was beaten a length and a half for third and had a photo finish

so I took it out the box and kept it as a souvenir

my greatest fulfilment in life

when I rode at Kempton

in the same race as Lester Piggot

I was a naive, wet behind the ears apprentice

all my years from seven, all my ambition was fulfilled in one moment

and I eventually finished last

tailed off obviously but it didn't make any difference to me

just to be part of it to be with the man himself

you couldn't buy it, that was the proudest day of my whole life.

Tony's now thirty-five

at weekends he takes his girls to a stables

where the family keeps a couple of ponies.

Hold onto them, come here, hold that brush

hold that brush?

What does it mean to you when you see the girls on a horse?

There at times when I look back and I look at them and see myself in them all the time

when I was a kid no one ever showed me how to ride a horse

I had to sort of go out and do it myself

no don't trot just walk him, I want you to walk round

hold them reigns nice and properly

when I see them riding I think I taught them that

or see them doing this and think "Oh I'll show them another way"

then once they learn it I pat them on their bums

put them on automatic pilot and they're on their own

well that's what life's all about isn't it

giving your kids all the opportunities and the benefits that you never had

don't be afraid, never be afraid, they know

horses were my whole life, flesh blood...

in my veins it was, y'know, all the smell, everything

Princess Anne to her horses and Lester Piggot to his.

That's how I felt - And you let it go?

I let it go.

Sometimes on Saturday morning I go to the cinema

sometimes with my friends, sometimes with him.

You don't - I do.

She don't

I don't ever see you.

You go to a different cinema.

- Have you got a girlfriend? - No.

Would you like to have a girlfriend?

No.

Do you understand the four F's?

Find them, feed them and forget them

the other F, I'll let you use your own discrimination

but I mean, this one

I tried to do the three F's

but I couldn't forget her

I used to work in a pub

just on a Friday nights, bar maiding

and then from there one night I went to a discotheque

he was in the pub earlier on

and afterwards we went to a discotheque and Tony was standing there

and I just... from there that was it

couldn't get rid of him.

We have our ups and downs, no more than anyone else

I think you've got to work at a marriage

I think all marriages go through stages

you can't stand each other

I think "Oh god I hate him I wish he'd get out"

I do, and I'm sure he does about me

I've been in positions y'know and...

well it's hard to say in front of Debbie but it's true

it's tempting

you take the bait

I go on holiday once a year with the boys to Spain, Magaluf

and we have a golf holiday, all against Debbie's will

but it's true

and I get in situations out there that y'know

life is for living

and I come back.

"Oh I know what you've been doing out there!"

"You've been meeting all those birds!" and whatever

and

they look at you as if to say

"I know but I don't want to know"

that's how it is.

Who's to say in another ten years me and him might've split up.

Quite possible.

You don't know.

If you were to break up, what do you think it would be over?

Yeah I think it would be the other party.

It wouldn't be for the kids 'cause the kids are everything

without anything prior to that.

- Isn't it? - Yeah

I mean it would break my heart

knowing that another man could come in here and bring my kids up

there's only one ambition really, I want a baby son

and if I see my baby son that'll be my ambition fulfilled

no one knows that, only you now

Tony and Debbie had a son, Nicky

who is now thirteen

they have two daughters, Jodie and Perry

and the family lives in North London.

Now listen, on Saturday Tottenham have got the Arsenal.

One I was expecting on Twenty-eight Up, when you filmed that

but I lost that baby

I didn't feel that I could have any more

I really didn't want any more

but then anyway I did and I had Perry

they are naughty, they're very naughty

they're the naughtiest kids I know.

Nicky's like me, he's more placid

but Jodie's like how he was when he was seven.

I do discipline them

I'll smack them, I'll put them in their rooms, I'll take things off of them.

I do it, I discipline them and he undoes it

so I'm fighting twice as hard with them

it just makes it harder for me because he's to soft with them.

- Why do you think you're too soft with them? - Because I love them so much.

Do you bring them up the way that you were brought up?

The upbringing I had I saw more dinner times than dinners

without any question

and I did have my brothers clothes on my back for hand-me-downs

it's never done me no harm

I wouldn't have got away with it with my parents what my kids get away with.

But in saying that you do give them everything possible

all these designer clothes type of thing

the Naff gear and "Roe-buck" trainers.

Now, even my Nicky plays football

and she will say.

"Nicky wants some trainers, have you got seventy quid?"

So I'm like "What?"

Seventy pounds for a pair of trainers? Hold on

there's a stall round there, the same quality trainers

for twenty-five quid or something

she goes "Twenty-five pounds? Oh no!" she'll say

"he can't go to school wearing that rubbish!"

She'll give him everything... the kid...

we've got an old bike, it wants a chain put on and the nuts tightened

or whatever.

"Oh can't have that bike! Get a new one!"

Then next Christmas.

- Only 'cause you don't put the chain and bolts on it! - Oh I'm not that way...

What will you do if you don't make it as a jockey?

Oh I don't know

if I knew I couldn't be one I'd get out of the game

wouldn't bother.

And what do you think you'd do then?

Learn Taxi's.

At twenty-one, Tony was on "The Knowledge"

learning to be a London cabbie

I'm going to prove every person who thinks I can't be a cab driver wrong

and I'm going to get that badge and put it right in their face

just to tell them how wrong they can be

and how under estimated I am.

At twenty-eight he had his own cab.

It's surprising who you pick up.

I once met Kojak, I picked him up

and Warren Mitchell, Alf Garnett y'know.

Debbie's working in the day

so

Debbie will be on her way home by four o'clock

the kids will be coming home for dinner

Debbie will stop the cab outside and come in and cook the dinner

then I'll sit down with the kids until about seven, whatever

then I'll start the cab up 'cause we work the same cab

then I'll go to work until about one

until it goes again

she's got a great mind, she's done "The Knowledge"

which is, less than two years

for a women with three kids and the pressures of running a family

that's remarkable.

You get a lot of resentment still

from other cab drivers

some of them they just give you abuse

some of them just sit there shaking their heads when they see you.

I get told to "go home and do the dishes"

or "go home and cook your husbands dinner".

I went to a Knowledge school

and there I met other girls doing The Knowledge

and we became quite friendly

we meet on a certain rank at Knightsbridge