Two Trains Runnin'

The following programme contains disturbing scenes

and explores the theme of racism.

The blues earliest days are lost to time,

The blues earliest days are lost to time,

and many of those who made the first blues recordings

disappeared soon after,

leaving only their names to future generations.

leaving only their names to future generations.

Until, improbably,

a few young men decided to go off in search of these legends.

Their quest brought them to Mississippi in the summer of 1964,

Their quest brought them to Mississippi in the summer of 1964,

just as another group, drawn by the civil rights movement

was also venturing south.

was also venturing south.

Both would awaken America to the value of Black life,

but at a cost.

There were two trains running that summer,

There were two trains running that summer,

and they would meet one fateful Sunday, in June.

February 1st, 1960,

Negro students launched a movement that electrified the nation:

the sit-in.

It's not jazz around here anymore, it's folk music.

Welcome to Hootenanny's!

Welcome to Hootenanny's!

The National Guard troops were moved into Oxford, Mississippi

The National Guard troops were moved into Oxford, Mississippi

to enforce the Supreme Court edict that a negro must be registered

at the University of Mississippi.

And I say, segregation now,

And I say, segregation now,

segregation tomorrow,

and segregation forever.

By 1963,

Negro groups decided to make voting a major goal.

When you come down into the flat-top country of the South,

you hear a different kind of music.

A great change is at hand.

Those who do nothing are inviting shame as well as violence.

June 12th, 1963,

a sniper's bullet killed Medgar Evers.

August 28th, more than 200 thousand people

August 28th, more than 200 thousand people

marched on Washington for jobs and freedom for Negros.

The filibuster on Civil Rights is now in its ninth day.

Debate on the motion to take up the Civil Rights Bill

is continuing as we talk here.

is continuing as we talk here.

This is, surprisingly enough, Phil Spiro here at last.

This is Folkside, and we're on WTBS in Cambridge.

You have some unbridgeable gaps in the world.

Race, I think, is certainly one of them, for some people.

Race, I think, is certainly one of them, for some people.

The US, as a whole, was a segregated society at that time.

But, I was a prototypical white college kid at MIT.

It didn't really seem to impact me very much.

The Civil Rights Movement was very much in the air.

Well, I was conscious of it.

My background was northern kind of Yankee.

My background was northern kind of Yankee.

The African American way of life was very far removed from my world,

The African American way of life was very far removed from my world,

the world, I think, pretty much, over the folk revival.

The blues really was not a part of Cambridge.

The blues really was not a part of Cambridge.

It was mostly that Irish/English folk song tradition.

Very little Black music.

Very little Black music.

I was interested in the old-timey stuff,

white and Black.

It moved me in ways that I still can't really explain.

It moved me in ways that I still can't really explain.

Before, I knew it, my grades were going downhill.

Phil Spiro had won a scholarship to MIT,

Phil Spiro had won a scholarship to MIT,

and planned a career in Aeronautical Engineering.

But with his grades suffering, he dropped out

and took an entry level job

and took an entry level job

programming the world's earliest computers,

leaving his nights free

to concentrate on what mattered most to him.

And he found a roommate who had also chosen music over college.

I knew Al Wilson through the Club 47.

I knew Al Wilson through the Club 47.

He had dropped out of the Music Programme at Boston University.

The things they offered weren't the things that Al wanted to learn.

The things they offered weren't the things that Al wanted to learn.

We couldn't afford a telephone between us.

But, we had a lot of music there. We had records.

Al had all sorts of music that I knew nothing about.

People like Charley Patton,

People like Charley Patton,

Blind Willie Johnson, Robert Johnson,

Son House, Skip James,

they were recorded in the '20s and '30s,

they were recorded in the '20s and '30s,

but these were electrifying cuts. Alvin Y Hart

This is music that we call Delta blues or Country blues.

To the extent that any record existed of that in the '60s,

To the extent that any record existed of that in the '60s,

it was in old 78s, you know, from the '30s.

Library of Congress anthologies and so forth,

you know, kind of frozen in amber.

you know, kind of frozen in amber.

They were these very scratchy dubs that you could barely hear,

but they were so profound and so unearthly.

but they were so profound and so unearthly.

And you thought, "Man...

"..that's just back in the day when giants walked the Earth."

Country blues was so obscure,

Country blues was so obscure,

you might say it had disappeared from America.

It had long since fallen out of favour with African Americans.

In the 1960s,

In the 1960s,

Black audiences were even turning away from electric blues

as soul became more popular.

But, as the folk revival gained momentum,

But, as the folk revival gained momentum,

a handful of small labels began reissuing

the records made during the Depression.

And in college towns like Cambridge,

a renewed interest in the Country blues sprang up.

a renewed interest in the Country blues sprang up.

It was like being in a secret society.

You know, now Robert Johnson has been put on a postage stamp.

You know, now Robert Johnson has been put on a postage stamp.

But, at that time, it was just, "Who?!"

These guys were obsessed with this sound.

It's not easy music to master.

It also spoke to them of another way of life

outside of the deadening post-war suburban life

outside of the deadening post-war suburban life

they were born into.

There was another life that was more expressive,

that was more erotic,

that was more dangerous.

And that was it, I mean, oh God.

And that was it, I mean, oh God.

I didn't listen to Rock and Roll for years.

Anywhere this led me, anywhere the blues led me,

Anywhere this led me, anywhere the blues led me,

I was ready to go. And at the start,

who could ever imagine that we'd ever see any of these people.

I think they really loved that music,

wanted to get closer to it.

But the story of the blues is riddled with inaccuracies

But the story of the blues is riddled with inaccuracies

and you know, all this kind of mythology.

It was all a mystery.

If there was any chance of these people

If there was any chance of these people

still being alive,

it was worth whatever effort we had to put in

to get them in front of a microphone again.

They had the records, they had the recordings,

but there was still so much we didn't know.

If you were going on the information that was available to you

on 78 rpm records. You know, it's not a lot.

on 78 rpm records. You know, it's not a lot.

And then, amazingly,

And then, amazingly,

Mississippi John Hurt was found by Tom Hoskins.

Because, John Hurt recorded a song in the '20s

Because, John Hurt recorded a song in the '20s

called "Avalon Blues".

Now you're living here in Avalon, Mississippi.

Now you're living here in Avalon, Mississippi.

Yes, Avalon, Mississippi.

Carroll county? Carroll county.

You're living with your wife Jessie. That's right.

And, are those two children yours? Grandchildren.

And, are those two children yours? Grandchildren.

Grandchildren. Grandchildren. Yes sir.