MINDHUNTER

- I'm gonna grab coffee. You want some? - I had some on the plane.

Excuse me. May I?

Students are welcome to everything.

- Cold season. - Sorry, what?

- I was just saying it's cold season. - Oh.

Bill.

- How are you? Welcome. - Thank you.

How's your family?

Since when do you care about any of that?

I'm adopting a facade of caring.

- You want to dive in? - Yeah.

Here he is.

Dr. Wendy Carr, my partner Holden Ford.

Dr. Carr.

Agent Ford. I've read a lot about you.

- About me? - Your notes.

Uh, thank you.

Okay, um, let's go to my office.

I'm glad this worked out.

When you sent me your notes from the Kemper meetings,

I was in a real rut with my new book.

- What's your book about? - It's about white-collar criminals,

men not so different to your Edmund Kemper.

How do you think the men you study are similar to Edmund Kemper?

Well, first of all, they're all psychopaths.

I study captains of industry:

IBM, MGM, Ford, Exxon, you name it.

And sure, these men all have wives, kids, dogs, goldfish,

but not because they stopped being psychopaths,

but because they just had different leanings.

But you think they have the same underlying personality traits?

Well, Kemper shows a total lack of remorse,

a lack of inner emotional structure,

no ability to reflect on the experience of others.

- You saw this in my notes? - It would've been clearer

if you'd recorded and transcribed your interviews verbatim,

but yeah.

Although your project is obviously in the nascent stages,

it already feels like a clear successor to The Mask of Sanity,

which, as you know, is quite a compliment.

Repeat that? The Mask of...

So you're saying you don't think this,

us interviewing these killers, is crazy?

Just the opposite.

I mean, crazy in the way that anyone with a truly new idea is crazy.

- But no. - Wow, okay.

That's a relief.

That hasn't really been the feedback we've gotten so far.

Actually, this is the only feedback we've gotten so far.

Well, these men are just sitting here, locked up.

And we're too afraid of the morality of it

to see the far-reaching value of their insights.

Far-reaching in law enforcement?

Into behavioral science, early detection, criminology, you name it.

Oh, yes, yes. This is what I've been saying the whole time.

Oh, have you?

You need to put this on a more formal footing.

It's gonna take a lot of time and energy

to expand it into a larger project with a specific questionnaire.

Their family histories,

what their thoughts were on why they did it,

when they were aroused during the killings, that sort of thing.

Then contrast, compare, and publish.

Publish?

Well, you can't just circulate your findings within the FBI.

- I mean, maybe even turn it into a book. - A book?

Whoa. We appreciate the vote of confidence,

but we weren't allowed to send you those notes.

- We can't publicize what we're doing. - Why not?

Our department head gave us weekends only

and an office in the basement.

We still have students, we have Road School full-time.

- We can't just drop everything... - Road School?

We travel around the country and teach FBI techniques to cops.

- Oh. - We're seeing Benjamin Miller

in Bridgewater this afternoon.

Road School is what gives us the freedom

to go out and interview these guys.

We can go bit by bit.

Kemper and Miller and build out from there.

Make a study in our free time, like you said.

I didn't realize that this was so informal.

We could make it formal. We can do that easily. And then a book.

The successor to The Mask of...

I guess I just wanted to get another set of eyes,

see if you thought this was valuable from an academic standpoint.

Have you shown your Kemper notes to your department head?

No.

Teaching police departments, can someone else do that?

- Anyone can, it's really not that hard. - That is not true,

and it's beside the point.

Shepard doesn't even want us to talk about this.

You really think he's going to say yes to a full-time academic study?

Never mind a book?

You think people would be interested

in this outside of law enforcement?

I mean, imagine,

like truly imagine what it takes to bludgeon someone to death.

The lust for control,

the feeling of arousal,

the decision to rape the severed head of your victim,

to humiliate her corpse.

How could you possibly get that from an ordinary police report?

You know why it took me nearly a decade to publish my book?

Because narcissists don't go to the doctor.

Psychopaths are convinced that there is nothing wrong with them.

So these men are virtually impossible to study.

Yet you have found a way to study them

in near perfect laboratory conditions.

That's what make this so exciting and potentially so far-reaching.

It's not that I disagree. I've spent enough time with Holden

that I know what it means when he gets that crazy look.

I'm afraid it's just not feasible within the bureaucracy of the FBI.

We've got weekends. We've got the evenings after Road School,

an hour or so before Road School. We don't have to tell Shepard.

Interviewing 40 men across the States is a full-time job.

And if you want this to be a legitimate academic study,

then you're looking at four, maybe five years.

- And compiling, analyzing the data. - Right.

Well...

It's a shame.

We have an interview with Miller in an hour and it's a bit of a drive.

You know, this is really important work.

If your boss won't let you do it,

then you should talk to someone who has the freedom and resources to...

We'll stick with it for now.

It'll be slow going, but we're not ready to give up yet.

Of course not.

But it's good to get some encouragement, even if our hands are tied.

Thank you.

It's a pleasure.

- What if... - Don't.

- I'm just saying we could... - Holden.

Look, I'm frustrated too.

You know, they shoot the birds in the yard

because they might be smuggling in drugs.

Actually, I don't know if that's true. A girlfriend told me once.

- You date a lot of ex-cons? - No.

Actually, Debbie's the first girl

I've really dated-dated since high school.

- Dated-dated. - Yeah.

My wife's the first woman that I've married-married.

I thought they said 3:00. What are we waiting for?

You'd be less fidgety if you smoked cigarettes.

I should have brought a tape recorder.

Bureau Agents Tench and Ford?

Gentlemen. I'm Dr. Cale. We spoke earlier on the phone.

Thanks for doing this, Doctor. We realize it's somewhat unorthodox.

Unfortunately, Miller says he won't talk to you.

Now, we told him in advance and he agreed,

but there's really nothing we can do now.

- He should be in a better mood tomorrow. - Tomorrow?

Well, he gets like this sometimes.

Just needs a cool-off period before he can interact with people.

We have to bring him food into his cell because he won't come out.

We're headed out tonight. We can't come in tomorrow.

I'm sorry. Will you be back to Boston another time?

Perhaps.

Thanks for your time, Doctor. We appreciate it.

Of course.

Well, that's the last time we give them advanced notice.

Holden?

Ever feel like you're on the cusp of something,

and it keeps spinning out in your head?

- Where'd you get that ironing board? - Your closet.

I just can't stop thinking about this project.

Dr. Carr said it could have far-reaching consequences.

Why are you up? Did you smoke my pot?

I can't stop thinking about this project. The idea is so exciting.

Okay.

Just don't wake me up when you come back to bed.

Rissell's an hour or so away,

so we don't have to do Road School to get to him.

There's, uh... Vaughn Greenwood.

- The Skid Row Slasher? - Yeah, he's in California.

Along with Herbert Mullin.

The Cincinnati Strangler...

- What's his name? - Posteal Laskey Jr.

- I assume he's in Cincinnati? - Uh...

Yeah.

I like teaching the Midwest cops. Hospitable guys.

There's always Richard Speck in Illinois.

- Great, we can do a Midwest sweep. - Gerard John Schaefer.

He killed at least 30, they think. That was in Florida, though.

I can't say no to a Florida golf course.

Bill Tench.

- Hey, Bill. It's Roy Carver. - Hey, Roy. What can I do for you?

We need to talk. There's been another attack.

This time resulting in a fatality.

- Got it. - Can I get you guys back out here?

Okay. Let me get back to you.

- What's up? - Carver.

Been another one.

Same age as Rosemary Gonzales, only this time she's dead.

Bill, my God! We're vindicated.

What's the matter with you? An old lady was just murdered.

We can talk to Kemper again.

Did she have a dog? Please tell me there's a dog.

A bigger dog. Slit from ear to ear.

Amen.