Hollywood Banker

My name is Rozemyn Afman and I am the daughter of Frans Afman.

My father was a prominent Dutch banker

who had always wanted to write a book about his adventures in Hollywood.

He became a major player in the independent film industry during the 1980s.

To help him, I started interviewing him as a labor of love.

But it became for me, a journey of discovery into my father's life and times.

Marker A and B cam.

Oh, I have to do it in English, right?

Yes, we are doing it in in English.

Okay, are there any questions from the audience?

That's very funny. Actually I do have a question.

Papa.

What would you like to know about Frans Afman?

Oh, um... Yeah, I think the...

What is interesting I think that...

How is it possible that

a guy from a medium Dutch bank, a medium-sized Dutch bank

was able to invent a completely new structure for film financing.

Because I am a simple banker.

That's probably the only question, the rest is not interesting.

Let me tell you about the era of Frans Afman if I may.

You have no idea the amount of power this one man

truly wielded.

With the wave of that finger.

Well, he needed this one also to sign.

Oh, I thought it was the middle finger?

No, no, no. He had to use the both of them together to sign the things.

He pretends he's a producer, but in fact he is a PR person.

Give you another story. I would go to the, to his offices in Holland

and he'd have a waiting room,

and the waiting room was the who's who of Hollywood.

You'd sit out there, They would be sitting there like this.

From Dino De Laurentiis to Menahem Golan

to Andy and Mario, who were coming over.

They would all be sitting around and waiting.

We'd be like little children, waiting.

They would get the financing that they need,

they would get solved their problems,

they walked out with the solutions.

Over a period of more than 20 years,

my father financed over 900 films.

He did so through two European banks he worked for.

First, Dutch Slavenburg's bank

and later the French Credit Lyonnais.

He played an important role in the creation of films such as Superman,

Platoon, and Dances with Wolves.

And he was instrumental to the rise

of many independent production companies

like Cannon, Hemdale and Carolco.

The '80s were a lot more fun.

Can I get your autograph? I want to get your autograph. I didn't think you existed.

BRUCE McNALL A very entrepreneurial, go get 'em,

play things loose and fun, enjoy what you're doing,

that world of the '80s.

Which was more about people and less about the numbers.

Without Frans, independent film would have been set back decades

if not more.

For the old timers like me that know that,

it's kind of, you know, yes, you guys are all riding on this wave and great fun

but the history is interesting which was, before that it just hadn't been done.

I needed your father when he was there.

Someone who believes absolutely in what movies can be.

He is probably, in many ways, the best-known banker in the history of Hollywood.

'Cause most people don't know who the bankers are.

Frans gave us the money.

Now it is time to tell the truth.

How much money are we talking about?

We asked for one million and he gave us three.

What happened with the other two?

This is probably from the '80s.

From a very young age,

I developed a huge adoration for my father.

There was a fifty-year age difference between us.

As a young girl, I never understood what he did for a living

except that he always wore a business suit.

Which impressed me.

I remember very well that there were pictures taken on a beach in Los Angeles,

where I got a sense of his importance.

As I grew older, I became more and more intrigued

about what he exactly did.

By sheer coincidence in the early '70s, I believe it was '74.

I met with Dino De Laurentiis.

Everything that I did in the film business, I owe to Dino.

He earned his stripes already in Italy.

He already had two Oscars.

One was Nights of Cabiria and the other was La Strada.

He was interested in getting a bank account,

a normal regular current account in Amsterdam

because they were in the process of setting up a foreign distribution office.

He couldn't rely anymore on the Italian banks.

And that's perhaps when he met Frans

and the owner of Slavenburg bank.

And they seemed to be open to get into that business.

I said, "How do you finance your pictures?

"How are movies being financed?"

And he was laughing at me and he said,

"Well, you are a banker, aren't you?"

I said, "Yes, well I'm trying to play that role."

He said, "Bankers never ask that question

"because they hate the film business,

"they don't want to get involved

"and certainly not in the independent motion picture business."

The Citibank, Bank of America. No way.

Of course they had corporate accounts with the major studios,

but independent producers were always turned away.

The studios used to have their cluster of writers,

their cluster of directors, their cluster of stars, under one roof.

And they all kind of cross-collateralized their ideas,

the creativity, and was very safe.

They want their certain tent poles and franchise movies

or the romantic comedies that are sure winners.

They want to love their scripts before they make them.

Scripts aren't always perfect.

You know, you've got to decide on something

and then try to make it perfect and then go make them.

And that's where your father was very important.

Because he gave independent producers chances to make their movies.

As a commercial bank, we could not invest in films.

But we could, perhaps, finance films.

I see a film as a project like we financed real estate.

We were based in Rotterdam, so obviously shipping was a major activity of our bank.

And I said, "Why not films?"

And he said, "Well, let's sit down

"and let's see if we can find a structure."

It all began with Dino saying,

"Frans, I'm going to teach you how to really do the film business

"and the foreign sales, the discount contracts."

Frans had lunch with Dino, practically three times a week for many months.

I remembered that my father in his free time, he was very active in culture.

He booked stage plays

and guaranteed a certain amount of money.

He thought, "Hamlet would be played by a major actor or

"Midsummer Night's Dream, I will certainly have three nights fully booked

"and so then I can guarantee a certain amount of money."

And with that in my mind, I said to Dino,

"Couldn't we lay off the risk to the distributors in the world?"

There are a lot of independent distributors

in every major country.

And we give them the script.

We tell them who are going to be in the movie,

an idea about the cast.

And that system was basically invented by us.

By the two of us, Dino and myself.

And that was the system of pre-sales.

And in his autobiography, he describes us as the pioneers in the business.

You want to make a film, okay.

So what do you do? Where do you start?

So what you do is, step one is you get a script

you either write it, or buy it or option it,

but somehow or the other you get ownership of some script.

Step two is, you want to get somebody to be attached to direct and star in it.

We maybe had our director attached to it, maybe we had an actor or two.

And that was what we call our package.

What I now do is, I go down to the American Film Market

or to I go to Cannes and I go meet all the foreign distributors,

and I say, "How would you like to buy my film for your territory?"

"It's going to be wonderful." And we sell them, and they go, "Okay, we believe in you.

"We will buy the movie today,

"and you will deliver it to us eight months from now or a year from now,

"and let's agree on an advance we are going to give you."

So I have a contract from the German distributor now for a million dollars.

They haven't paid me cash, but they have given me a binding contract.

And that contract would be called a "pre-sale."

And that pre-sale we would take to a banker. Who could we go to?

Oh, Frans Afman. We would take it to Frans

and Frans would go, "Hmmm."

"They looked good. I trust the people that are going to pay.

"So yes, I will loan you the ten million dollars to make your film.

"But, how do I know, Sky, that you will get the film actually completed?"

So the completion bond company comes on and says, "Mr. Banker.

"I guarantee you, don't worry.

"I am an insurance company with billions of dollars behind me.

"If something happens, and an actor dies or the director quits

"or for whatever reason.

"You don't need to worry."

The bank then loans me the money.

When it is done, hopefully on time and on budget.

I now say to the completion guarantor, "I did my job, you're done."

I now deliver the film to the foreign distributors.

They pay the more than ten million dollars back to the bank.

Hopefully I make a profit

either from the amount I've sold it for is more than the cost of the film

or if the film works, I will get what's called overages, which is royalties.

So, that is the essence of how the pre-sale market works.

I can't remember what the first one might have been.

Were you there during Three Days of the Condor?

Oh, that's good, yes. It was Three Days of the Condor.

And what it really was is that the tax shelter group

set up an account at Slavenburg's bank

and Frans helped us do it.

So it wasn't very expensive for us.

Robert Redford and Faye Dunaway in danger

and in love. In Three Days of the Condor.

My bank had absolutely no idea about film financing.

So, they said, "Are you sure that we get our money back?"

I said, "Well, sure, sure. You can never be sure. There is always a risk.

"But I have a good feeling. I think the distributors, I checked them out.

"I think they really have the intention to pay us

"once the picture is delivered."

My feeling was not so much about